Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Mon Nov 24, 2014 3:47 am

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: more help, please
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:48 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
This is kind of strange. Look at the second measure. How do you accent a tied note? I'm sure pushing down hard of the the already depressed keys will not work. Or maybe I'm supposed to nod my head there to 'look' like an accent? :lol: :lol:

Any ideas?

Image

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: more help, please
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 3:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:02 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Piemonte, Italy
pianolady wrote:
This is kind of strange. Look at the second measure. How do you accent a tied note? I'm sure pushing down hard of the the already depressed keys will not work. Or maybe I'm supposed to nod my head there to 'look' like an accent? :lol: :lol:

Any ideas?

Image


Yes, this could be not an accent, but a diminuendo inflection. See the controversial diminuendo/accent notation in Schubert's music. Dunno, just a possible explanation. Written that way you can only mimic the accent, not actually play it. Who's the composer?

_________________
"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking" - Anonymous

Alfonso Bertazzi, amateur pianist.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:20 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
It's Granados.

Quote:
Written that way you can only mimic the accent, not actually play it.


Thanks, Alfonso. But I do not understand what "mimic the accent' means.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:02 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Piemonte, Italy
pianolady wrote:
It's Granados.


I'd have bet good money on it. :lol:

pianolady wrote:
Quote:
Written that way you can only mimic the accent, not actually play it.


Thanks, Alfonso. But I do not understand what "mimic the accent' means.


Sorry, I meant you have to mime the accent.

At any rate, I actually have no clues and hope someone can shed light on that odd sign, I'm just curious now.

_________________
"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking" - Anonymous

Alfonso Bertazzi, amateur pianist.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:35 am
Posts: 1418
Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
I've played something before (I want to say it was Rachmaninoff) that had a crescendo marked on a sustained chord. As if! :lol:

Maybe Granados wrote that for clavichord?

_________________
"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:35 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
alf wrote:
Sorry, I meant you have to mime the accent.


Image

Ok, I'll try almost anything. :lol: :lol:


Sorry, Alf. I still don't really get this. But I'll let you know if I ever learn the answer.

Terez wrote:
I've played something before (I want to say it was Rachmaninoff) that had a crescendo marked on a sustained chord. As if!

That's pretty much the same thing as my accent over a tied note. Who knows...

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:13 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:02 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Piemonte, Italy
pianolady wrote:
alf wrote:
Sorry, I meant you have to mime the accent.


Image

Ok, I'll try almost anything. :lol: :lol:


Sorry, Alf. I still don't really get this. But I'll let you know if I ever learn the answer.

Terez wrote:
I've played something before (I want to say it was Rachmaninoff) that had a crescendo marked on a sustained chord. As if!

That's pretty much the same thing as my accent over a tied note. Who knows...


Beethoven and Schumann also have "unplayable" dynamic indications. For example the cresc. at ms.254 in the first movement of the Les Adieux sonata.

_________________
"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking" - Anonymous

Alfonso Bertazzi, amateur pianist.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 8:27 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:35 am
Posts: 1418
Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
My version (Schenker) says it's measure 252, but I see that. :D That's a matter of first and second endings...my textbook anthologies all count the measures of first and second endings as the same measures, which is what this version did.

_________________
"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 11:07 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
That Les Adieux one doesn't seem too odd to me. Basically, isn't it just crescendoing from 251 to the end?

Image

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 6:02 pm
Posts: 1167
Location: Piemonte, Italy
pianolady wrote:
That Les Adieux one doesn't seem too odd to me. Basically, isn't it just crescendoing from 251 to the end?


Yes, a crescendo of two notes, the first of which is the resolution of an appoggiatura... pretty awkward isn't it?

_________________
"A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking" - Anonymous

Alfonso Bertazzi, amateur pianist.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: more help, please
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 12:45 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:34 pm
Posts: 1278
pianolady wrote:
This is kind of strange. Look at the second measure. How do you accent a tied note? I'm sure pushing down hard of the the already depressed keys will not work. Or maybe I'm supposed to nod my head there to 'look' like an accent? :lol: :lol:

Any ideas?

Image


I could be wrong but I think the accented notes are played. Perhaps the ties are interpreted as a tenuto?

It could be an engraver's error.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: more help, please
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:26 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
PJF wrote:
It could be an engraver's error.


There are tons of errors in the book I'm using, so that makes sense. Thanks, Pete.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 1:46 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:35 am
Posts: 1418
Location: Gulfport, MS, USA
Don't you have a recording of the piece, Monica?

_________________
"Z Czernym poznałem się na panie brat—na dwa fortepiana często z nim u niego grywałem. Dobry człowiek, ale nic więcej..." - Fryderyk Chopin


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:29 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
Terez wrote:
Don't you have a recording of the piece, Monica?


I do now. Just forked over another .99 cents to itunes to hear de Larrocha play this. (been doing this a lot lately!) Anyway, I could hear no accent on this spot in the music, so it must be an error. You wouldn't believe how many errors I have found. Most of them are missing accidentals, but in this piece there is also a place where there are repeat signs but no indication of where to go back to. I like mysteries, but I'm kind of getting tired of trying to figure out how these Granados pieces are supposed to be played!

Thanks for your help, Terez, Alf and Pete. :)

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 1:24 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:34 pm
Posts: 1278
Say, is there an authoritative edition of Granados's music? An Urtext if you will?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 2:42 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
PJF wrote:
Say, is there an authoritative edition of Granados's music? An Urtext if you will?


If there is, I'd like to know. But I doubt it. I've listened to so many players play his pieces and they are all so different from one another. I suppose de Larrocha would play the most 'authentic' music, but still...it would be nice to see it in print. I'm using a Dover edition and never checked other editions. Thanks for giving me the idea, Pete. :wink:

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 4:41 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9598
Location: Netherlands
pianolady wrote:
If there is, I'd like to know. But I doubt it. I've listened to so many players play his pieces and they are all so different from one another. I suppose de Larrocha would play the most 'authentic' music, but still...it would be nice to see it in print. I'm using a Dover edition and never checked other editions. Thanks for giving me the idea, Pete. :wink:

The complete edition edited by Douglas Riva should be pretty reliable, seeing as he worked closely with Larrocha.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 11:14 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
techneut wrote:
The complete edition edited by Douglas Riva should be pretty reliable, seeing as he worked closely with Larrocha.


Why am I always the last one to find out about these things?:x I didn't even know there was a Riva edition. :oops:

I sure am glad that I hang around with such smart people. :D I'll check out the book very soon!

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 12:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:34 pm
Posts: 1278
I was also unaware of a Larrocha/Riva edition.

Apparently, it IS the urtext edition, if anyone finds it online, let us all know!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:29 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
Posts: 8529
Oh, yes, Pete. That's it! I'm so excited. Just found the complete set on a Spanish music publishers website and struggled with working out the money conversion of the various volumes. But then I found them at sheetmusicplus.com

here is the direct link:

http://www.sheetmusicplus.com/store/smp ... 0984429714


The $740 dollars for the complete set shocked me, and I'm sure my husband will not let me order it. But I don't want every volume. Only 8 of them, so I'm going to order two at time to avoid suspicion.

_________________
"Simplicity is the highest goal, achievable when you have overcome all difficulties." ~ Frederic Chopin

my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 3:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:34 pm
Posts: 1278
Monica you found it! Thanks.

Just what I'd expect of anything Urtext. For those of us that take accuracy seriously, it's almost worth the price.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group