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 Post subject: help with chopin's nocturne 48-1
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:02 am 
specifically speaking, what would be the best way to practice up the speed of the left hand in the doppio section? (my right hand seems to be handling the speed but the left hand is for whatever reason significantly lagging behind in the speed improvements it needs) Should it be practiced slow enough that every chord/note is completely solid like a bach piece or with a lighter touch?

I'm also still trying to figure out how to properly do the octaves section though I've read some of the other topics on that and will try what has been said; it seems like the way I was doing it was making the muscles in my arm tense up the faster I tried to play them (which is of course, does not achieve anything good)

Now to make matters worse, I have to perform this as soon as April 27th (and a smaller scale one on March 21st)! Of course I'll ask my teacher these questions in my lesson (Wednesday) but the more info I can get before hand the better.


thanks for any ideas


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:15 am 
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:03 pm
Posts: 2388
Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
Have you memorized the entire nocturne? To the point where you can verbally recite the left hand passages which are troubling you?

I think you need to memorize every note so it becomes second nature (and you never have to give it thought).

But if you have memorized it and what is troubling you is purely technical, then I can't help you. However, I know that there are plenty of peeps here who can!

_________________
Madam, what makes you think that I play with my hands?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:31 am 
Certainly, in the doppio section, each hand is separately memorized.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:32 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:48 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Lyon, France
I have it worse than you, I'm performing this on Thursday...

Anyway, my teacher's usual trick for this is to rely on the left hand's "inner voice". Since this is hard to put into words, take a look at this to see what I mean:

Image

The idea is to focus on the highlighted voice's legato (not necessarily to bring it out!). It will ensure better hand stability than either other voice would. Here's some suggestions as to how to put this into practise:

1. Without pedal, starting slowly, play the inner voice as legato as possible, and the other voices non legato (not staccato). Make sure you always hit all the notes simultaneously.
2. Play the inner voice alone.
3. Play the left hand as it is written, with pedal, but while singing or thinking about the inner voice's notes.

It goes without saying that refraining from looking at the keyboard benefits these exercises greatly. ;)

I know it may seem a bit unusual and tedious, but I can assure you that it works wonders. By the time you're comfortable with the above, your left hand will most definitely have improved significantly, and not *only* as far as speed goes. Best of luck!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:37 pm 
That sounds very useful; I will get that into practice tonight! Have any tips for octave section that hasn't already been said? (at least, I'm asking since you're specifically doing this piece, good luck btw)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:23 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:34 pm
Posts: 1278
I agree emphatically with Juufa. You MUST memorize this section to a point at which you could (literally) write out the notes. A little bit of theory goes an awfully long way, here.

Hands-separate until total recall is automatic, and of course don't "doppio" the "movimento" until you've got it rock solid.

I like F.M.'s teacher's suggestion; I used the same trick to learn Chopin's etude op10 no7.

USE THE METRONOME!

When first combining the hands, try playing only the melody of the RH with only the downbeats of the LH. After you can do this with a high degree of accuracy, then (and only then) add the chords. Also try playing everything EXCEPT the melody. Also practice the full LH with just the RH melody.
My point is, practice it in as many different ways as you can conceive. Up an octave, down an octave, in a different key, playing very broadly, very quickly...etc.
Pete


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:09 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:48 pm
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Location: Lyon, France
Quote:
Have any tips for octave section that hasn't already been said? (at least, I'm asking since you're specifically doing this piece, good luck btw)

What's giving you trouble, specifically? The octaves themselves? The jumps? Dynamics?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:34 pm
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ab the D.M. section

Blocking the LH intervals into chords will speed memorization, too.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 11:20 pm 
François Micol wrote:
What's giving you trouble, specifically? The octaves themselves? The jumps? Dynamics?




Ah, I suppose I did not specify that...but... I meant [what would be] the proper technique of how to achieve a fluid vivacity with the octave runs.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:32 am 
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Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 12:48 pm
Posts: 60
Location: Lyon, France
You know, I've been thinking about how to address this for a while and the truth is... I don't know. Octaves are one of the *very* few things I play somewhat naturally. I don't think about how I do them, I just kinda "feel" it (or not, depending :roll: ). It's hard to describe a sensation.

Would it help you if I put up a video, though? I was thinking I could maybe show you how I go about it at various speeds.


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