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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 2:54 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
dnt forget this Olaf.
I am back to Chopin..index.

johnmar78 wrote:
MindenBlues wrote:
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Olaf, go to this site and it will expain to you the 3 differnt kind of rubato using mozart sonata as an"example", tell me what you think after youve tried it out.


Thanks John, for the link.
Have you read the article yourself? It describes only 2 kinds of rubato, the same kinds which are already discussed here in another thread (Chopin interpretation thread, quotations from the "Eigeldinger" book). So to be honest, nothing really new to me. The professor forewent to mention that the original meaning of rubato is to "rob" time in the manner rob time - give back. So that the average timing remains. That is essential in my opinion. There is the famous book of H. Neuhaus (teacher of Gilels, Richter and other russian giants) "The art of piano playing", he explains it in more detail here. I can really recommend it to you if you have not read it already.

I disagree with the suggestion to use it on Bach inventions, because I don't like rubato here (just personal opinion.

And I disagree also, that the "RH only" rubato means always that the RH should lay back behind the LH. In my opinion "RH only" rubato is that the RH is free in both directions, can even come before the LH, not only laying back.

Otherwise nice article on rubato in my opinion.



I have found some one using rubato playing with a slight rh late entry as compared to left hand describe to then article that you are disagreed with. I happened to listened to Yundi li's chopin noctrne op9 no 1 and 2 on his chopin cd. On the second movement of op9 no1 he some times delayed the rh which on score should be plyed TOGETHER...the delay was very little...you could say it as "not accurate"???? However, he won 2000 warsaw chopin competition at a young age.... You have to listen to his cd when you got a chance,,,,a

Does anybody know of a professional recording of e.g. a Chopin waltz with the Mozart/Chopin style of rubato LH straight rhythm, RH loose like a singer? I never heard someone doing it consequently. In the recordings of old master Cortot I have, he used lots of rubato - but not really that "RH only" rubato. I think it is a pretty demanding thing to do it, otherwise one would here it more often, or not?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 11:52 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:29 am
Posts: 692
Location: Germany
John, if you quote, it is better to delete the name in the quote bracket, this way one can optical see the quotation. From your reply, it is almost impossible to recognize what was the quotation, and what were your own words.

And - I am not disagreed with that mentioned article regarding rubato. I only said, it contains 2 kinds of rubato, not 3. And that I don't like rubato on BAROQUE music.

Quote:
I have found some one using rubato playing with a slight rh late entry as compared to left hand describe to then article that you are disagreed with..


There are of course numerous example at which someone uses on certain spots the right hand rubato, with left hand keeping straigth rhythm (which was used by Mozart and Chopin). E.g. I heard recordings from Cortot or Arthur Rubinstein they did so ON CERTAIN PLACES within a piece.

That's why I will only repeat that I never heard up to now someone doing this special kind of rubato with left hand precise rhythm, and right hand rubato, doing extensively and consequently during an appropriate piece, e.g. a Chopin Waltz. I think it would sound great to act rhythmically seen like a singer while keeping constant rhythm with left hand, but I find it very, very difficult to execute. One needs truely independant hands, not only hands which are trained for certain crossrhythm through long practising. This kind of rubato is MUCH more difficult than the "simple" rubato where left and right hand are coupled in rhythm. But I can imagine it is worth every effort it takes, because it sounds very relaxed and poetic to me.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 4:29 pm
Posts: 170
Location: Ede, Netherlands
Never overuse the metronome. Never never use the metronome.

I personally think the metronome is a high quality helping object, not an obligation. I don't like using it, but practising a piece completely without metronome would be a bad idea (for most people). I think it's good to check if your rhythm is still right after you have played a piece for a while. On the other hand, I hate gradually speeding up with the use of a metronome. That's the way I will get stuck with a piece.

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Yiteng

"Without music, life would be a mistake."
Friedrich Nietzsche


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