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 Post subject: Re: Zoom H2
PostPosted: Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:21 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 470
Location: France
Hi Maric,

yes the proximity effect likely occurs in this case, despite the mics are about 1 m off the soundboard. It is much less with other mics, even in figure-of-eight setting, even with other ribbons (Beyer M160 and M130). The impedance shall be 300 ohms since they are recent (Millenium edition) and that is the value currently given by Coles in their data sheet. But their sensitivity is significantly higher than their -65 dB specification, closer to -58 dB according to their output level compared to the Oktava.

I'm not in a hurry for a new mic but I am interested by any good one, historical, current or future. :)

I'm not from any school, ribbon, SD or LD. I test... Some of my recordings here have been made with LD mics: Beethoven Op. 27 no.2 1rst movement, Schubert's Hungarian melody and Der Leierrmann.

Currently I'm interested in SDs placed close to the strings. I think it's a very suitable solution for home recording because there is nearly no concern with the room sound, which is most often poor in a normal house. As you said, the low ceiling is the first limitation.

What do you think of the attached sample ? The mic placement is shown in the attached picture. There is a bit of digital reverberation for a more natural acoustic image of the instrument.

Cheers,
Didier


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 Post subject: Re: Zoom H2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:14 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:08 am
Posts: 59
Didier wrote:
Hi Maric,

yes the proximity effect likely occurs in this case, despite the mics are about 1 m off the soundboard. It is much less with other mics, even in figure-of-eight setting, even with other ribbons (Beyer M160 and M130).


Because of the particular construction the proximity in 4038 can be noticable as far as 2m away, so you will need to use low cut there.

Quote:

Currently I'm interested in SDs placed close to the strings. I think it's a very suitable solution for home recording because there is nearly no concern with the room sound, which is most often poor in a normal house. As you said, the low ceiling is the first limitation.

What do you think of the attached sample ? The mic placement is shown in the attached picture. There is a bit of digital reverberation for a more natural acoustic image of the instrument.


I think the close miking can be fine for Jazz or pop, where sound attack is important. For the classical I much prefer the blend of the direct and reflected from the open lid sound and to me this recording sounds too "pointy", without that blend and sense of air/atmosphere. I don't think the digital reverb can make up those natural qualities. Very often, it is easier and might be a better idea to accept the imperfections of the room than trying to add into the recording what is not there. If the room is acoustically not good I think it is time to invest into acoustical treatment--it will make much more difference than spending the same money on buying better equipment.

Best, M


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 Post subject: Re: Zoom H2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 03, 2010 10:31 am 
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 470
Location: France
Thank you Marik for your listening and your comment. I was trying to get the sharp attacks that I hear in many modern classical piano recordings. But I think that you may be right.

I'm not ready, and anyway would not be allowed, to transform my living room in studio. I could possibly put bass traps in the room corner where is the piano, but certainly nothing on the ceiling.

A possible advantage of LD is that at close miking the sound is less peaky than from SD. I did another take with LDs a bit further away just outside the piano. I think it's better.


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 Post subject: Re: Zoom H2
PostPosted: Mon Apr 05, 2010 8:16 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2010 8:08 am
Posts: 59
Didier wrote:
Thank you Marik for your listening and your comment. I was trying to get the sharp attacks that I hear in many modern classical piano recordings. But I think that you may be right.

I'm not ready, and anyway would not be allowed, to transform my living room in studio. I could possibly put bass traps in the room corner where is the piano, but certainly nothing on the ceiling.

A possible advantage of LD is that at close miking the sound is less peaky than from SD. I did another take with LDs a bit further away just outside the piano. I think it's better.


For less than perfect room conditions I prefer MS. Mathematically it is equal to XY, but has a few major advantages: 1) The "M" is pointed directly to the source, eliminating most of the room influence, 2) Later you can manipulate with the "S" channel separately--use an EQ, reverb, etc, removing resonances and peakiness, and adjusting the "room" sound, 3) Change the width of the stereo image to your liking in the post production, and 4) The microphone positioning is somewhat less critical, but still generally, in most of the cases I prefer at least 1.5-2m away, somewhere between a stick and beginning of the curve.

For the "S" I use ribbons only, which have much better fig.8 pattern and limited directivity in the vertical plane, eliminating a lot of ceiling and floor reflections. Also, their (generally) limited top frequency response helps to eliminate room "ringing".

Since you have two 4038 I would not be afraid to try Blumlein either--something what ribbons do a marvelous job. Each room is different, but with the right mic technique and right choice of microphones it is always possible to get a decent sound even in a very bad one.

Best, M


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