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 Post subject: Piano Society in universities,conservatories
PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 12:19 am 
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Maybe a stupid idea,but how about for the society to have reps in universities and conservatories?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:06 am 
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No not a stupid idea at all. I have been in contact (1 1/2 year ago when the site was much smaller) with both the local musical program where I live and the conservatory in Gothenburg but never really done anything about it. How do you think we should do it?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 7:32 am 
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I am thinking about something like this:

1.Piano Society has representatives in universities/conservatories
2.Piano Society Reps promote the society membership and recruit pianists/composers
3.Piano Society Reps organise concerts featuring Piano Society Artists.Organise concerts sponsored by the Society

Any other ideas?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:53 am 
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Not a nad idea at all but it takes a large organisation than we have today (me and Chris). I'll give this a serious thought.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:57 pm 
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Well to be frank, this is not really a "society" despite the name. There are no real members, just people submitting one or more records. Only very few of them keep active, many seem to disappear once they are a recording up the site. Things would have to be drastically formalized and organized before we can think of expansions like that. I fear it would mean the end of the 'amateur' status of the site (which it has, despite there are many professionals too).

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:02 am 
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How about this?
Two sections in the society:

Alpha: "amateur" section, in which people keep to what they already do

Bravo: "gold" section.Access to this would be by membership purchase.Something like $10/year

The Bravo section would be the one involved in my idea

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:52 am 
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very good idea. I suuport that one too, simply I am an active most of the time regardless either my recording is on the site or not. I am a music lover and no biased to anyone.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 5:32 pm 
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avguste wrote:
How about this?
Two sections in the society:

Alpha: "amateur" section, in which people keep to what they already do

Bravo: "gold" section.Access to this would be by membership purchase.Something like $10/year

The Bravo section would be the one involved in my idea



I agree with Chris' view that this would frighten away many amateurs, also this would establish a sort of "caste system". I like it that bankers, engineers, physicists as well as professional pianists post their playing here for the world, regardless of their profession. It would be a shame if Piano Society lost it's "classless society" feeling and became like the rest of the piano world. The way Piano Society is right now college students and composers are free to join and participate, I do not see why we need to change...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 6:54 pm 
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Good points arensky. We certainly want to stick to our happy-go-lucky, free-for-everybody approach for as long as possible. This is what makes PianoSociety unique.

Some more observations along this line:

- It is almost impossible to draw a clear line between amateur and professional pianists. And we don't feel like doing that anyway. There are only good and bad pianists :wink:

- The idea of people buying into a certain 'class' or 'section' does not seem to sit well with the open concept of our site.

- We have repeatedly considered the matter of membership fees, but always rejected it as long as there is no desperate financial need. We would sooner make people pay for downloads than requesting pianists to contribute.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 7:18 pm 
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I am now curious to learn more about your International Society Of Collegiate Performers. But where on earth is it ? Your personal pages (which are rather sparse and not particularly up-to-date) do not give a clue. And the link http://www.iscp.excell.org is not going anywhere further than the domain provider's main page. Is the iscp website down ?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 12:31 am 
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The host provider(free host) got hacked very badly and as such he was under the obligation to shut down business.I am hoping I will have the site back up either this week,either next week.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
As far as what is the International Society of Collegiate Performers,well I will try to explain.

During my bachelor degree studies,I found out that all the universities supposed to be performance oriented,really only cared about academics.Also noticed that universities didn't really help performance students find performance opportunities,nor provided information about colleges where academics count for nothing and such.
Following my 4 years of study,I decided to create the society to try and remedy to the above issues.
Some of the goals of the society:

1.promote performance vs academics.
2.provide performance opportunities
3.raise enough funds/donations to pay one full year of bills/studies of a performance student(student selected thru competition)

The above goals are of course bound to change depending on the success of the society and the membership

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:06 am 
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As Chris said, we have had a couple of discussions but never loud on the forum. Here is the latest which I have not still given up.

A system where 5 downloads can be made per day for free and in 128 kbit/s. With membership which costs $10 for a year, you can download as much as you like, use streamers directly off the site and have no bandwidth limit. But to where goes the money? Well, the extended idea is that the pianists get the income if they join the pianist partner program. For becoming a pianist partner, you must have at least 30 minutes of recordings up on the site. And also upload another set of at least 30 minutes per year. How do we split the money to the pianists? Two options:
1. Equal.
2. Per downloaded recording.

For the second suggestion, we should develop a system where the pianist can log in to view the current income (as with other affiliate programs as Google Adwords etc.) and regular checkouts are made when they reach a certain limit. This is a pretty advanced system and we must start with suggestion 1.

Is it possible that people will pay $10? I think it is. If you compare with classicalarchive who takes $25/year for midi and mp3 recordings, we are very competetive. Though they have a much wider range of artists and recordings.

Also, I am pretty sure that this system will attract a lot more pianists as it is really possible for a simple side income.

How many unique IP addresses download music do we have? We had 22,319 in October and if we play around a little with that 1% pay $10, that would be about $2,200. If there are 5% paying, we get $10,000 which really is a lot. However, it is not for certain that people pay as mostly, our visitors are youngsters without an income.

If we roll out a system like this, the technique must work perfect. I have tested a solution that really works so I do not think it is a big issue.

We can also have pianist partner programs. Pianists who attracts another 5 pianists get a bigger piece of the cake etc.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 9:43 am 
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Quote:
our visitors are youngsters without an income.



I'm a youngster without an income BUT I will be able to pay $10 of something what's $10? nothing! but.... I think we need to get more youngsters so the will be hear the classical music. Because I feel classical music is dieing.

My opinion.

You can post your recordings but to upload the recordings you need to pay some $

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 1:53 pm 
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Not bad Robert
I like that idea.
I am working on restoring my site.If you want,we can use it for its intended purpose:list performance opportunities and such

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:07 pm 
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hey, that sounds like an interesting idea. a little 'side income' can be pretty helpful for college students!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:40 pm 
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joeisapiano wrote:
hey, that sounds like an interesting idea. a little 'side income' can be pretty helpful for college students!

no no no I ment that you need to pay some $ before it will be uploaded 8)

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while composing I've got always an picture in my head 'beethoven'


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 4:43 pm 
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Quote:
no no no I ment that you need to pay some $ before it will be uploaded Cool


i was refering to Robert's suggestion #1


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:50 pm 
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joeisapiano wrote:
i was refering to Robert's suggestion #1

That was pretty obvious ;).

The only fear I have is that it put a lot higher demands on availability and administration. It is also possible that a lot more pianists would be interested and put some more load on us (positive problem of course). At the start, we must limit the number of pianist in the partner program so that it matches the income.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 6:55 pm 
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joeisapiano wrote:
Quote:
no no no I ment that you need to pay some $ before it will be uploaded Cool


i was refering to Robert's suggestion #1



woeps sorry :oops:

Robert you are right. But I don't know howmuch your costs now are at the moment. Is it so high that you need to ask people for money? The bandwith is huge on pianosociety :shock:

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music is enough for lifetime but lifetime isn't enough for music 'rachmaninoff'

while composing I've got always an picture in my head 'beethoven'


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:50 pm 
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There are more outcomes than incomes for sure and I fill the gap from my own pocket. But that is not the point here. It is the possibility for pianists to make money out of their efforts. Other choices are a) CD contract, b) Concert playing, c) teaching and a perhaps a couple of other.

We all know how narrow the path for the striving pianists is and perhaps this develop to an alternate method. Such an attempt shortcuts the monopolitic Music Industry which has developed to giants with a huge administration cost. PianoSociety is a threat/possibility to them and they know it (I have been contacted). Internet and the cheap recording technique is the driving factors.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2006 8:02 pm 
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Guys
I don't want to stop your enthusiasm,but I think we are going too fast.If we are doing this,lets get it started and lets get this right.
And like I said,we can use the ISCP site for posting performance opportunities,discussions and such

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 1:50 pm 
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The International Society of Collegiate Performers is back online at http://iscp.us

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 2:10 pm 
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Cool....
I suggest you change the link in your footer accordingly. It still does not work.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2006 9:28 pm 
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avguste wrote:
Guys
I don't want to stop your enthusiasm,but I think we are going too fast.If we are doing this,lets get it started and lets get this right.
Well, I think we got it started in 2004 already and I have probably spent like 1000 hours on Piano Society so far (1 hour per day in 2 1/2 year in avarage). Adding Chris, Erik and Joff's time and we probably reach 2000 hours. The entire site is built on pure enthusiasm and I am willing to discuss this and similar Piano Society issues and ideas on this forum.

With over 1000 recordings, I think we got it pretty right from the beginning.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:20 am 
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Robert,my apologies.A little misunderstanding.
I was talking about the discussion of my suggestion.
Didn't mean to offend you guys

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:25 am 
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I think this site is perfect. (This from a perfectionist!)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:46 am 
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I agree PJ
Robert,again,please accept my apologies if I offended you.
In my comment about getting it right,I was talking about my suggestion

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:00 am 
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No problems. Unless you comment badly on my haircut...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:18 pm 
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LOL
Understood.
How about getting this thread back on topic?LOL

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:06 am 
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There is a good chance for the Society to get advertised at Texas Christian University.
My teacher,Tamas Ungar,requested the links and said he would send them to the director of the school of music for announcement

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:54 pm 
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So,is there a possible interest for the society to have reps in Universities/conservatories?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:12 am 
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avguste wrote:
So,is there a possible interest for the society to have reps in Universities/conservatories?

Interest for sure but I have no idea how to make it happen. What am I expected to do?

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:55 am 
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The International Society Of Collegiate Performers, which was supposed to play a role in this,
is still nowhere to be found on the web. Both these links provided earlier don't work :

http://www.iscp.excell.org
http://iscp.us/

Is this supposed to be something akin to the National Society of Collegiate Scholars, where it is stated that "NSCS has active chapters at 226 colleges and universities nationwide" ?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2007 11:09 am 
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The society you refer to techneut and which I opened was shut down because of lack of interest from anyone.

I am not sure how the NSCS is doing business(even though I am a lifetime member ;) ), however the idea of chapters is about right

The idea would be basically for the Society to have reps in each city/university/conservatory. Then each one would promote the society to its own community and hopefully begin to organize concerts under the auspices of the society.Let me try to explain my idea with an example and I will use myself,since I know my area and such:

-The society or myself create posters,handouts and such. Then I would announce the "chapter" (to use techneut's suggestion) as the Texas Piano Society Chapter or something like that(the name is just an example)
-I post those posters/handouts at my university and send to faculties of other universities within my area(in my area,we have about 2-3 other universities).
-As membership would be free,I would expect to have many members join in. The only requirement for membership would be to be active on the Piano Society website with recordings and/or forum postings
-Then as the chapter grows, concerts under the auspices of the Piano Society and the Texas Chapter can happen.
-If needed, a specific rep per university within the chapter could be named and that rep would report to myself(chapter rep) every 2-3 month with a list of new members and such

Also,if we combine that with the book that is being done, the society could have its chapters membership free, while selling the upcoming book for about $20

Not sure if what I just wrote make any sense,but again it is just an idea that may need some tweaking to work.In any case, the above is my thinking

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2007 2:41 am 
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any comments about the above?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:32 pm 
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avguste wrote:
How about this?
Two sections in the society:

Alpha: "amateur" section, in which people keep to what they already do

Bravo: "gold" section.Access to this would be by membership purchase.Something like $10/year

The Bravo section would be the one involved in my idea


This would completely violate the original ideas behind Pianosociety.

Even Robert's idea does not sit well with me. Of course I cannot judge the current debit/credit situation of the site but the beauty of the project was and is that everyone who contributes even only one recording that meets the basic requirements will be treated in the same way as the professionals that dump their entire portfolio on this site as well.

Maybe the opinions of the conservatories have changed by now since the project has grown quite a bit, but back then none of the conservatories wanted to have much to do with the site.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2007 12:53 am 
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I think the issue with conservatories and universities is aggressive promotions and relations with faculty.For example,in my case, I have relations with faculty in Bordeaux(France), in Texas,Kansas,Missouri,Colorado,Lousiana,Michigan.
Also,what you quoted is not in discussion. I posted a better idea(I think) on october 9th

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 12:26 pm 
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Quote:
The society you refer to techneut and which I opened was shut down because of lack of interest from anyone.

I am not sure how the NSCS is doing business(even though I am a lifetime member ;) ), however the idea of chapters is about right

The idea would be basically for the Society to have reps in each city/university/conservatory. Then each one would promote the society to its own community and hopefully begin to organize concerts under the auspices of the society.Let me try to explain my idea with an example and I will use myself,since I know my area and such:

-The society or myself create posters,handouts and such. Then I would announce the "chapter" (to use techneut's suggestion) as the Texas Piano Society Chapter or something like that(the name is just an example)
-I post those posters/handouts at my university and send to faculties of other universities within my area(in my area,we have about 2-3 other universities).
-As membership would be free,I would expect to have many members join in. The only requirement for membership would be to be active on the Piano Society website with recordings and/or forum postings
-Then as the chapter grows, concerts under the auspices of the Piano Society and the Texas Chapter can happen.
-If needed, a specific rep per university within the chapter could be named and that rep would report to myself(chapter rep) every 2-3 month with a list of new members and such

Also,if we combine that with the book that is being done, the society could have its chapters membership free, while selling the upcoming book for about $20

Not sure if what I just wrote make any sense,but again it is just an idea that may need some tweaking to work.In any case, the above is my thinking


Here is again my idea.
And for those concerned with the universities reaction, the idea is not for them to run the show. Each representative of the society would be in charge of running his section

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