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 Post subject: Chopin Nocturne C# minor Op. post.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:10 pm 
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I was going to wait until I fixed some of the scalework but....this one's for you Monica!

This is from one take this morning. A few flubs....no excuses :x

Chris, I hope you don't mind the file size, I think Monica needs it! :lol:

Enjoy


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 11:05 am 
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Oooooh Baby! Yes, I needed that. 8) Thank you for the sensual infusion via notes, harmonies, and touch, Pete. I'm tingling. Now go and get all the sexy music you can find and get it up here. Fast! I don't want this feeling to end. :wink:

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my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 12:45 pm 
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:lol:

How about the op9 no.2 in e-flat? I'll post it this evening around 8 central time.

I'm glad you enjoyed my playing, I aim to please! (I'll have to fix those wrong notes eventually)

Pete :wink:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:47 pm 
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Your limpid touch and rippling passagework are a joy to behold. All the same, this is under-prepared, too many unnecessary silly slips. Ah well, you made Monica happy (she loves the biiiiig files :lol: ). But please get that compression rate down to 160 before you submit further recordings ! You'll be clogging up our disks before long.....

I would personally like to hear a bit more assertive tone in places. You generally play very softly, it seems.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:45 pm 
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You play - as usual I can say now - tasteful and with lots of feeling. As measured by your Etude playing I agree with Chris, that you could polish it here and there a bit because you could do it better.

techneut wrote:
I would personally like to hear a bit more assertive tone in places. You generally play very softly, it seems.


After all that is a Nocturne, and from all what is written by contemporaries who heard Chopin (see the Eigeldinger book with citations from contemporaries), he was a master in the soft playing. No doubt, that especially the Nocturnes are candidates for a soft tone (there are exeptions of course, see parts of 48/1 and others).
Please don't change your approach towards the sound. I prefer your soft tone by far compared to an approach with a keytouch ranging from pretty hard to very hard. So far I have problems with the terms "assertive" and "firm", if they mean that one should play louder. If "assertive" and "firm" is meant independant from the loudness, so that it does not mean to change the loudness, only the eveness of sound, than I agree that this is something useful.

Also I find that a singing piano tone is only possible if one plays in the sound area where the tone changes the most, that is from mellow to clear. In the area from loud to very loud the sound color does not change that much, only the volume, that's why the piano does not sing in that area.

If one likes to listen to a professional recording of all Chopin Nocturnes with an almost unbelievable soft touch, I can recommend the recordings by Ivan Moravec. They are from 1965, so no DDD- digital recording. But they show how a piano can sing sooooo beautiful, and IMHO he comes close to how the master played them itself (only an assumption) ...

Sorry for coming off topic regarding piano tone...

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:20 pm 
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Quote:
Your limpid touch and rippling passagework are a joy to behold. All the same, this is under-prepared, too many unnecessary silly slips. Ah well, you made Monica happy (she loves the biiiiig files :lol: ). But please get that compression rate down to 160 before you submit further recordings ! You'll be clogging up our disks before long.....

I would personally like to hear a bit more assertive tone in places. You generally play very softly, it seems.


I'm glad you enjoyed it, thanks. I think I know what you mean when you say 'assertive' I'll try to increase the dynamic range, instead of playing the main theme pppp to pp, I could try from pppp to mf. I think what I need to do is clarify the dynamic peaks, without sacrificing tone quality. I know, the slips are most annoying, I read it straight from the score. Give me a few weeks and I'll re-do it well. In the meantime, since this recording won't go to the site (and if Monica downloaded and saved it) feel free to delete it. It wouldn't be a loss. :lol:

Sorry about the compression rate, I won't do it again. :oops:

Quote:
You play - as usual I can say now - tasteful and with lots of feeling. As measured by your Etude playing I agree with Chris, that you could polish it here and there a bit because you could do it better.


It's nice to be appreciated, thanks!

As I said before, no excuses (I mean, come on, I screwed up a simple scale? What the...!? Talk about our old pal regression!). I've set my own bar pretty high, so I'm obligated to a note perfect performance here, I think. I'll get it.

Anyone for tonguetwisters?

Pianist Pete plans persistently proper practice, perfectly polishing pretty Polish posthumous piece. :lol:

PF


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 7:07 pm 
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PJF wrote:
Pianist Pete plans persistently proper practice, perfectly polishing pretty Polish posthumous piece. :lol:
Hehe!

Beautifully interpreted and you really play this with feel. You also chose a slow tempo which I feel is right for this Nocturne. I really do not like when it is played too fast.

Hate to take the mode down in this topic but there are several reading errors or that you have taken a very liberal standpoint to this Nocturne. From what you write, you are aware of many errors but really of everything? Perhaps depending on differences in editions but well, starting from the beginning.

- Bar 1-4, you chose a different pedal setting for bar 3-4. Intentional?
- Bar 5, you use an unusual start if the trill, one note down then trilling the two notes above. Any special reason?
- Bar 7, you leave out the second high C here and I know this differs from score versions. But it is obvious in Chopin's sketch (damn where do I have it...) that it should be repeated as in the score I attach to this post.
- Bar 13. Repeat of bar 5 but here, you do not start the trill one note down. Make up your mind man ;).
- Bar 15. You misread this one. Something is wrong at about 12-14 notes into the run. Sounds like you play a B-flat while it should be B. Do you?
- Bar 21. 6:th note, RH. You play an A instead of a C-sharp.
- Bar 23. Something is wrong in LH.
- Bar 47. A variation of the trill. Selfinvented? :)
- Bar 49. Same mistake as in bar 13.
- Bar 58. Read mistake in the run (at the end of it). The run is pure C-sharp. You should have have made that 1000 times in your scale practise so it should be very easy.
- Bar 59. Not sure if you made the same mistake here again but I think not. You just slipped a bit.
- Bar 62-63. Here is something I am very interested in as I have heard exactly the same in another recording (Nico-Morin Paul on this site). You play these bars in major instead of minor. Is this really the notes in the score and if so, which score edition is it? When it comes to professional recordings, I have never heard it that way so I expect this to be wrong. Check the score which I attached.

Didn't mean to spoil the fun but I really know this piece and have played it from time to time in almost 25 years. Take the time to look at score I attach.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:03 pm 
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I, know my errors were very odd and numerous. What I did was read it straight from the score, inaccurately at that. At that moment, I cared only about getting the impression of the nocturne. Rest assured, I'm aware of all my mistakes and I will fix them. I look forward sharing the correct version.

BTW, my score shows C#major at the last bars. I've also seen scores with the chord as minor. I think there are many differing editions! I used the Palmer Edition. Wow, your score has about ten differences to my edition! I'll research it.


I suffer from terrible stage fright, when put in front of a mic, I can forget ridiculously simple things like how to do a trill or play a scale. It's getting better and I credit the reducton in performance anxiety to this forum.

Thank you Robert,
Pete


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:07 pm 
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PJF wrote:
BTW, my score shows C#major at the last bars. I've also seen scores with the chord as minor. I think there are many differing editions! I used the Palmer Edition. Wow, your score has about ten differences to my edition! I'll research it.

Yes I understood that it was likely the case and I have heard quite some differences in recordings during the years and never really got hang of what score that is to considered as the most reliable.

I should visit the library and check for a copy of the manuscript. Pretty sure it is there. A little story about the Nocturne:
"The manuscript of the present nocturne dedicated by Chopin to his sister remained for a long time hidden among the treasures of a private collection in Warsaw. The owner kept it under lock and key like a sacred relic and did not allow any publication. It was published for the first time by the heirs of the Polish collector a few years after his death.

Chopin wrote this Nocturne for his sister as a 'practice' piece for the preparation of the slow movement of the E minor Concerto."

PJF wrote:
I suffer from terrible stage fright, when put in front of a mic, I can forget ridiculously simple things like how to do a trill or play a scale. It's getting better and I credit the reducton in performance anxiety to this forum.

Thank you Robert,
Pete

I suffer from exactly the same thing. As soon as the recorder goes on, I get stiff and nervous. Ridiculous really isn't it? :?

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:40 pm 
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robert wrote:
I should visit the library and check for a copy of the manuscript. Pretty sure it is there. A little story about the Nocturne:
"The manuscript of the present nocturne dedicated by Chopin to his sister remained for a long time hidden among the treasures of a private collection in Warsaw. The owner kept it under lock and key like a sacred relic and did not allow any publication. It was published for the first time by the heirs of the Polish collector a few years after his death.

Chopin wrote this Nocturne for his sister as a 'practice' piece for the preparation of the slow movement of the E minor Concerto."


Thank you for your investigations to the background of this really beautiful little nocturne!

robert wrote:
PJF wrote:
I suffer from terrible stage fright, when put in front of a mic, I can forget ridiculously simple things like how to do a trill or play a scale. It's getting better and I credit the reducton in performance anxiety to this forum.

I suffer from exactly the same thing. As soon as the recorder goes on, I get stiff and nervous. Ridiculous really isn't it? :?


I did suffer from this too. But after some recordings I get used to the view of those mics while recording. Also, after a recording what seems to be useable, I store it on harddisk and try for another take. Since I know that what is stored is already half-decent, there is no more fear or anxiety. Often, this way I get a better recording.

At the end, recordings nowadays are like digital photos - one can shoot often and what is of no use can be deleted without costs. What must professionals in former times have had a pressure when they recorded on wax barrells, and every failed attempt costs money for the equipment...

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:57 pm 
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MindenBlues wrote:
What must professionals in former times have had a pressure when they recorded on wax barrells, and every failed attempt costs money for the equipment...

I have been thinking the same thing. Must been a bit shaky and probably the reason why we here quite some wrong notes of Edwin Fischer and Cortot.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 08, 2007 7:42 pm 
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Interesting to note, thematic fragments from this nocturne are found throughout his second concerto.

About performance anxiety, I've really opened up since getting my Edirol. I'm in a joyous mood, when dancing for an ear other than my own, my fingers now seem to do what I tell them! If I hit a wrong note, I don't lose my composure; I just calmly move the piece along until the end. I guess I somehow forgot the stupidly simple fact that a piece can't be fixed mid-performance, so it doesn't make sense to get bent out of shape over the inevitable slip.


:D

ps I mentioned posting the e-flat nocturne...it's not up to par, so I'm a-gonna fixit if'n I wanna post it.


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