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 Post subject: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:09 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Antibes, France
This is my first recording for PianoSociety.
You'll find the three movements of the Bach's Italian Concerto BWV 971
1. 1st movement
2. Andante
3. Presto

Enjoy listening.


Attachments:
Bach_ConcertoItalien_1.mp3 [5.65 MiB]
Downloaded 301 times
Bach_ConcertoItalien_2.mp3 [6.17 MiB]
Downloaded 268 times
Bach_ConcertoItalien_3.mp3 [6.16 MiB]
Downloaded 298 times
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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:45 pm
Posts: 385
Location: New Jersey, USA
Thibaut,
Thanks for posting. In the interests of getting a discussion going, I'll leave some notes only on #1, which I followed with a score:

Very good overall: crisp, always moving forward, pretty constant tempo, and the note-accuracy is excellent.
Picky stuff:
-- absolutely no silence at beginning of recording. A little disconcerting for the listener.
-- at 2:51 or 52 in recording, there are a couple of measures where I cannot snap my fingers (or tap my foot) to the music - it seems like there's an extra 16th note's worth of music in there. This is the best example of a general observation that when there is a trill in the right hand, the performance loses a little "crispness". Probably just comes down to the dreadful task of planning in more detail what happens during trills. (I hate that stuff, myself!)
-- tags are not our standard, but I'll let the moderators explain that to you.
-- other than trills, the ornaments sounded fine, but I'm no expert. There are experts here, and perhaps someone will tackle this.
-- occasionally, there were a couple of groups of two 32nd notes followed by a 16th which tended a little toward triplets. I'm sure this is something that just happens in performance and is not planned. The instances that I noticed were late in the piece.

Very enjoyable recording, Thibaut. I'll listen to the rest soon, and others will also provide critiques.

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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 9:11 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2007 4:53 pm
Posts: 468
Location: France
Bonsoir Thibaut,

I just listened to this Italian Concerto just for pleasure of enjoying music (pour la première fois sur les enceintes, allongé sur le divan, au lieu du casque devant le PC :wink: ).
It was really a nice moment (avec un verre de Rivesaltes, c'est encore meilleur :) ).

I wish all the best to you,

Didier


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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2012 5:16 am 
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Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:32 pm
Posts: 499
Location: Connecticut, USA
Hi Thibaut,

I just had a listen to your Italian Concerto. As Stu mentioned, it's quite accurate notewise and it's clear you have a great deal of enthusiasm and natural feeling for Bach. However, there are rather a lot of noticeable unevennesses and rushings throughout. One noticeable instance is toward the end in the return to the primary theme. I would recommend a bit of practice with the metronome to even out some of the places where your fingers seem a bit muddled.

Your tempo in the Andante seems about right, but IMHO it needs more expression; it sounds a bit nondescript right now. I think part of the problem is your lack of pedal. While it's true that pedal in Bach is generally a but of no-no, there are a few more lyrical works that demand it and this is one of those IMO. Otherwise, you'll never get the effect of those wonderful pedal-point-like figures.

As for the presto, I think the tempo is rather too much on the slow side. This needs to have more verve and energy. It's not an easy movement, I know, but maybe try working this up a bit and submit again.

Anyway, this is certainly not bad, I just think it needs a bit more polish and time for maturation. One thing about this piece is how frequently played it is--there are already six different versions on the site, so that of course ups the ante for submissions of it. One good version on the site you might consider listening to is A. Bertazzi's, particularly his nobility in the first movement and the way he sculpts the melody in the second movement.

Just my two cents. IMHO you can definitely get there, but I think it's going to take a bit more time. The decision, of course, rests with the admins.

Joe

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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:44 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9602
Location: Netherlands
Hello Thibaut,
Sorry for the late reply. I listened to mvt 1 earlier but found no time to comment as yet. I've just re-listened and can confirm my initial impression that
this is very fine playing. You could do a little bit more with terraced dynamics, and in some places there seem to be tempo shifts, but overall this is a steady and confident performance with little to complain about. The only nag I have is a rhythmical hiccup in bars 28, 88 and 197 (if I've counted right, my score has no bar numbers). You seem to ignore the tied-over note in these bars and play as if it was not written. This causes a strange jarring effect. There seems to be a funny fumble in bar 146 - not a big deal.
I'll listen to the other movements later, and hope they are as good as this one.. In the meantime, please provide some background on yourself, and some more recordings of contrasting repertoire if you want to be included as a pianist on the site.

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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:25 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 1:57 am
Posts: 320
Location: New York City
Hello Thibaut,

1st movm't -
The first movement is delicate and yet substantial and expressive.

2nd movm't - Calm and well defined playing

3rd movm't -
Nice presentation of ideas. Perhaps a tad more expression in some of the short melodic fragments.
It sounds as though with a little more time there will be more ease with the melodic components.

Thank you for sharing. It was really enjoyable listening.

- Kaila Rochelle

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musicrecovery


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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:50 am 
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Joined: Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:18 pm
Posts: 1040
And where is Thibaut?

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"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 9:28 am 
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I was wondering about that too. He does not seem too interested in feedback or get his recordings posted. I planned to listen to the other movements but I'm not sure if I will now.

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Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:09 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Antibes, France
Sorry for replying late. I had lots of stuffs to manage before my new baby birth, and so little time to reply.
Thank you for your very interesting comments. It is more than I expected !
I'm going back to the piano on the Concerto to take your remarks into account.
I'm also preparing a little biography, and other recordings.
Thank you and sorry again... but I'm still there :-)
Thibaut


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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
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Location: Netherlands
Ah, you've given birth ! Congratulations !!! Yes that takes a lot of one's time ;-)
I'll go listen to the other movements now.
Please note we want to hear some other repertoire from you too, and like to know if you will be a regular contributor. There are too many people who get a handful of recordings on the site and are never heard from again.

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Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:47 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:09 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Antibes, France
Of course, I understand. I'll do my best to contribute regularly !

I'm now preparing :
- one valse de Chopin
- the 1st movement of Pour le piano de Debussy
- the Bartok's Romanian folk dances


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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 12:16 pm 
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Ah, babies! They take time, but they also sleep and if you start now, it will sleep through anything later on, which will come in useful, because you will be able to practise more and at the same time put the child to bed!

I remember mine, aged three or four months, nodding off half-way through Chopin's Etude in c minor on two different occasions. :) I also remember her, at the same age, singing along to a Scarlatti sonata. :?

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Richard Willmer
"Please do not shoot the pianist
He is doing his best."
Oscar Wilde: Impressions of America: Leadville


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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:26 pm 
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I listened to the other 2 movement and did not find them as convincing as the first. The slow movement is incredibly hard to make sing (it sounds like it could be written for a string instrument), it is an acid test for any pianist. I agree that some pedaling is probably needed here, or else a more prominent reverb. Also, your touch and tempo are sometimes inconsistent here. The 3rd mvt is indeed too slow, and in fact I find it a bit labored, in that you sometimes slow down for the more tricky passages. On the whole it is a bit monochrome, could do with more phrasing and discreet dynamics.
All said, it's still good and promising Bach playing, despite some tiny fluffs here and there. The instrument and recording quality are real good, what piano and recorder do you use ? It does not sound like a digital.
I think this is of sufficient quality for the site, but I also think you may want to work a bit more on it, to make it even better

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Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:09 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Antibes, France
Thank you Chris for having listened and commented the last two movements.
It is true that the whole piece needs more colours.
I'm not convinced that the 3rd movement needs to be played too quickly (Gould version is for me excessive), anyway I'll push up the metronome to the quick side. I hope it will give a more vibrant effect !

My piano is a Bechstein A190, recorded with a pair of Oktava MK-012. The pre-amp and A/D converter is a Fireface 400. Didier brillantly managed the masterisation.


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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 7:22 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:09 pm
Posts: 6
Location: Antibes, France
Here is a kind of biography. Is it the right place to post it ?
How do I do for modifying something later ?
Thank,
Thibaut.

I was born in March 1976 in Paris. I have started to play the piano at 6 and tried to never stop during my studies.
My favorite composers are Bach, Beethoven, Schumann, Schubert, Chopin, Debussy, Ravel, Bartok, Messian. But I could add those I played when I accompanied a flutist : Poulenc, Fauré, Gaubert.

I also teach the piano to beginner players.

After piano, my favorite hobby is sound recording. For piano I most often use a pair of Oktava MK-012 with omnidirectional capsules, connected to a Fireface 400. I have also a pair of Audio Technica 4041 and a AKG 542 BL for close miking.
I also had the chance to record professional pianists and use high quality microphones such as Schoeps MKII, Microtech Gefell M930 and ribbon microphone : Cloud JRS-34 for MS stereo recording.
I also own a 4-track field recorder Edirol R-44 and a little pocket Tascam DR07 coupled with a in-ear binaural microphone Roland cs10-em that allows impressive 3D effects for little money !

In my professional live I am research engineer in a French defense company. I obtained my PhD in 2003 on speech perception and modelisation. My skills are audio signal, speech and sonar processing,


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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:38 pm
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Hello Thibaut and welcome to Piano Society.
I've only listened to the second movement because it's one of my favorites. I liked your tempo and style; it's pretty much the way I play it. I think a bit more pedal would be nice to soften things up, but this is just my opinion and meant only as a little suggestion. :)

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 Post subject: Re: First Post: Bach Italienisches Konzert
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 9:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:09 pm
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Location: Antibes, France
Thank you for your comment.
I'll manage to add a little bit more pedal, I totally agree with you !
Thibaut


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