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 Post subject: FINALLY hear the juuf play
PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:03 pm
Posts: 2388
Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
Hello ALL! :P

(as you can tell I am happy because my Edirol arrived today, but as you will find out that I wont be that happy after I get ripped apart by commentary)

This is my first recording, so I am doing it by trial and error- where to place this little box (edirol, this thing is so small that I fear I might break it :roll: ). how loud to set the volume on the keyboard, etc. etc. etc.

Please excuse the sound quality because I do not have a real piano or high end recording equipment (I will after I win the lottery).

So here is the recording:


Franz Liszt
Waltz in A major


according to Lisztworks.com it is S208a

Admin edit: Attachment deleted, recording is up the site

Possibly the easiest piece Liszt has ever composed. I hope I pulled it off :?:

please take it easy on the negative commentary, my fragile self can take only so much before I crawl into my closet to curl into the fetal position and whimper for mommy 8)


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:06 am 
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Quit being so negative! Gahhh!

That was very nice. Your playing is clear and your melodic control is quite good. I'll make a wild guess that you practice with the metronome. Am I right?

There is a similar piece by Tchaicowski entitled "Italian Song". It's in D major.

Keep up the good work!


Pete


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:45 am 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
no metronome. What i normally do is listen to someone else play it (someone better than myself) and see how he or she goes about playing. Then I remember how fast or slow they play it, mimicking the speed (not the "mood" or touch,but just speed) when I play.


Here are a few more:

Tchaikovsky's Album for the Young Op. 39
1) The Sick Doll
2) The Doll's Burial
3) German Song*



*This is not meant to be placed in the website's database. I record it to ask you guys: should I use the pedal? There are no markings on the score for when I should use the pedal. Also, this piece is not ready I messed up a few times with the time and the dotted eigth notes :evil:

As for the placement of the Edirol. The Sick Doll was recorded with it being where the sheet music rests, and the Doll's Burial and the German Song was recorded with the edirol on a chair next to me about 2.5 away from the speakers and about 10" below the keys on my left side. I ask which one sounds better?


Last edited by juufa72 on Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:00 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 1:38 am
Posts: 647
Location: Sydney, Australia
well played pal. As PFJ said ..metronome???? Is the second part meant to be a delay(RH triplet)-i think??or just the file down loading is not fast enough??

Soon you will hear my home recordings---I have to up load first. Minute waltz...and others without metronome......I want to see if my LF are accurate as metioned by PFJ.

Cheers.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:54 am 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
forgot the german song :oops:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:18 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
the german song....I think the timming on the rh is slight too slow(da da da) otherwise its fine.
I listened it twice to confirm my opnion..anyone else????


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:18 am 
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Location: Sydney, Australia
johnmar78 wrote:
the german song....I think the timming on the rh is slight too slow(da da da) otherwise its fine.
I listened it twice to confirm my opnion..anyone else????


I mean its the third beat on the lh together with the rh towards the mid section of the music.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 19, 2006 5:29 am
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Location: Germany
Your both "doll" pieces by Tchaikowsky sound really good to me. Especially the sick doll piece you play with feeling - nothing to niggle about, nice little pieces, well played!

On your Listz waltz you could check to not loose the groove while playing the ornaments with right hand. You could try to practise the ornaments hands separated so long that you can concentrate on the left hand during playing for not loosing the groove. And you can give the melody more phrasing, show the melody bows. I would play with pedal so that the first beat in left hand holds longer.

The German Song is not ready yet. I could swear that your hands tense up in order to get the rhythm things managed. I would practise slower, with metronome, hands separated. So slow that you can completely relax, and speed up while maintaining the relaxed state.

The Edirol seems to get more and more popular here. If it were only possible to start a centralized big order to save money... But too difficult to manage I guess.

Keep up playing and recording, and please treat hints not as negative thing, instead as source of inspiration!

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Olaf Schmidt


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:33 am 
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Location: Netherlands
I can't listen to these as my Internet at home is down, and am not allowed to download mp3's
at work. So unless someone would be kind enough to mail them to me at cbreemer@hotmail.com, I can not comment.....

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Chris Breemer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:00 pm 
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Hi Juufa72. You're lucky you got your Edirol. I'm jealous.
As far as your recordings go, the only thing I might add on the Liszt piece is a little more pedal.
The Doll's Burial, I think you played it fine, but in my opinion just a bit too slow. I know it's a funeral, but...I don't know, it just seemed too slow. But this is only my opinion. Others probably think I'm wrong about that.
I think the Sick Doll was perfect. The German song, again, I would add a little more pedal. Also, watch the third beat - sometimes it's rushed a bit. It needs to hit the same time there is a pair of eighth notes or one quarter note on the the third beat of the right hand. As far as the placement of your Edirol, all the recordings came out the same on my computer except the Doll's Burial, which was very quiet. I had to turn up my speakers practically all the way. Good job, overall. I like these little pieces.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:03 pm 
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I just listened again, and it is the Doll's Burial AND the German Song that are quiet. The other two come out louder on my speakers and sound clear.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:09 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
The reason why everything is quiet (especially the Tchaik selections) is due to the fact that it is played "pp" and I have a keyboard with semi weighted keys.

The combination of the two make for really really quiet recordings. :oops:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:47 pm 
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Finally managed to download these - albeit at excruciatingly slow speed :x

Overall, pretty solid playing, without any slips or reading mistakes that I could notice (except the German dance, we'll get to that). But, there is also much to be improved.

The Liszt - I guess this is juvenilia, when was it written ? It comes off well but the accented notes are not quite audible as such. And you sometimes strangely rush the LH like in the first bar of the forte section. It could help emphasizing the waltz rhythm by inserting just a little 'lift' between the 2nd and 3rd beat of the bar.

Sick doll - In the first 8 bars, and similar later on, you need to keep all the LH notes until the end of the bar. You lift them as soon as the other hand comes in. In the reverse situation (bars 9-16) you do a little better but not much. Also, observe the "marcato il basso". You could be a bit more flexible with the tempo (i.e. a touch of rubato) and definitely a bit if ritenuto towards the end - even when that is not indicated.

Doll burial - This seems recorded at a much lower level than the above. Perhaps you accidentally turned the input volume wheel while moving your device ? Have to turn up the volume so high that the hiss gets annoying. Some tips: observe the rests, and observe the slurring (make sure the phrases are separated by realy lifting the hands as well as the pedal). In bar 15, you start the LH too soon. The long crescendo should be started in time, not in the last two bars as you do.

German dance - Have to be frank here, This is a rhythmic mess, and there are one or two places where you slip quite badly because being insecure. Try playing this simply in time - let the LH be the beat keeper for the RH. Perhaps this may be easier to practice at a higher tempo. Not that it needs to be performed as such, but often rhythmic problems are easier to tackle at higher speeds - paradoxical as it may sound.

So, good to hear your debut. One point of attention is the plopping noises (keys?) which are rather intrusive especially in the Liszt - or perhaps I got used to it after that. Also, try more variation with the dynamics, if your keyboard allows it. Lastly, sit and listen to yourself as if you were someone else, and try to hear the good as well as the bad things. I am sure you will improve much now you are able to record and post !

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Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:21 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
Hello all and thanks for the commentary,


1) I do not know when the Waltz was composed. Perhaps early on in his life due to the simplicity and lack of feeling.

2) My italian is a little off, what does "marcato il basso" stand for? "_____ the base" I assume?

3) How flexible with the tempo? There is a fine line between artistic presentation and newbie slaughter!

4) The doll's burial is quieter due to the fact that I relocated the edirol. I noticed that when i was playing the waltz and sick doll that I hit some ugly sounds because of the quality of my keyboard (state of the art back in 1999, a little outdated now). So I decided to move the edirol away from the keyboard next to where I sit about 2 feet away from the speakers and about 10 inches below the keys, on the lower octaves of the keyboard. Maybe I should then compensate by turning up the volume on the keyboard a little.

What I noticed was that besides the ugly sound was that i heard metallic-plastic vibration because of the sheetmusic rest is plastic clipped into the keyboard. (before I relocated it)

5) German Dance = 50%. I know there are mistakes and plenty of them. I just posted it to ask whether or not I should use more pedal?

6) I cannot go about pressing down on the keys too hard because, as you observed Mr. B, the edirol will pick up on that sound. and to me it is as annoying as mistakes in playing. There is nothing I really can do about it, except by a real piano or glue pieces of rubber on the keys to act as dampers. :idea: :roll:

7) Debut= I did it with a rush, just to see how this works. Now that I broke the ice, I can sit back and really work on it. You might be asking, "wouldn't it be the other way around?" Truthfully...yes...but that's not how I operate :P .

Thank you all for your ears. As time goes on you will see a pattern in my playing. And what I submit. Sooner or later I know I will accquire the nickname of "Mr. Shorts."

My philosophy is play music that is beautiful because of simplicity. But the only darn problem I have is executing it simply. Irony, yes, I know.

Love, hahaha :lol:
-the juuf


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:44 pm 
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Quote:
2) My italian is a little off, what does "marcato il basso" stand for? "_____ the base" I assume?


It means "bring out the bass line". No need to be fluent in Italian, but you should really get a musical lexicon to explain common musical terms like this !

Quote:
3) How flexible with the tempo? There is a fine line between artistic presentation and newbie slaughter!

Yeah so true. Nobody know where that line is, but once you cross it, be sure we'll tell you :lol:
Seriously, it is just a bit rigied. Some judicious rubato, e.g. at the end of phrases, would make it much more interesting. But never overdo it, that is the worst thing to do.

Quote:
Maybe I should then compensate by turning up the volume on the keyboard a little.

Sure, or better, tuen up the Edirol's input volume dial, assuming the R9 has one like the R1. Or do it later on the PC using Audacity or similar. It is imprtant that your recordings are comparable in output volume (not always easy to achieve though).

Quote:
5) German Dance = 50%. I know there are mistakes and plenty of them. I just posted it to ask whether or not I should use more pedal?

The one or two mistakes are not your problem. They'll be gone soon enough. It is the rhythmic instability you need to work on. This is a Ländler, the German cousin of the Waltz, and should be played in a similar fashion. That also implies you can use some pedal, as long as it does not blur the harmonies.

Quote:
6) I cannot go about pressing down on the keys too hard because, as you observed Mr. B, the edirol will pick up on that sound. and to me it is as annoying as mistakes in playing. There is nothing I really can do about it, except by a real piano or glue pieces of rubber on the keys to act as dampers. :idea: :roll:

That is bad. Can't advice about that...

Quote:
7) Debut= I did it with a rush, just to see how this works. Now that I broke the ice, I can sit back and really work on it. You might be asking, "wouldn't it be the other way around?" Truthfully...yes...but that's not how I operate :P .

Good job we do not criticise in a rush :P

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


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