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 Post subject: Beethoven - Sonata no.17 in D minor Op.31 No.2 "The Tem
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:11 pm 
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I just listened into some of our Tempest-recordings on the site. My impression was that we have a great musical variety in the different interpretations. Sometimes I thought "this is how this part also can be played". Also one aspect and sense of PianoSociety from my point of view.

My practice of the piece was very slow - but never boring. I recorded the 3rd movement in 02/2007 and the 2nd nearly one year later in 01/2008.

Beethoven - Sonata No. 17 in D minor, Op. 31, No. 2, I: Largo - Allegro
Beethoven - Sonata No. 17 in D minor, Op. 31, No. 2, II: Adagio
Beethoven - Sonata No. 17 in D minor, Op. 31, No. 2, III: Allegretto


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:16 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
I didn't hear anything wrong with these recordings. Nice job. I hope others will agree with me.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:39 am 
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These are up, Harald.

A few comments:

I: Bar 5 - the turn - should be A-G#-F Natural-G#. It's the F Natural that you played as an f-sharp. Allegro part at bar 100 and 105. Can't hear the LH when it crossed over RH.

II: Bar 89 - you are one beat shy. You started the RH 32nd note run too soon.

2nd bar from end - the RH is not all 8th notes, but 16th and 8th notes.

III: I didn't hear 3 beats in bars 99-103 and also 106-109

Bar 350 could use more fire!

I know this is a hard piece! I've tried it myself, but was only able to get down the 2nd movement. Most of your playing was nice. If you want to fix the incorrect spots, we can always replace a file.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:08 pm 
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juufa72 wrote:
I didn't hear anything wrong with these recordings. Nice job. I hope others will agree with me.

Thank you, juufa! But as we see, Monica did hear some wrong notes...

pianolady wrote:
A few comments

Thank you for the detailed hints!

pianolady wrote:
I: Bar 5 - the turn - should be A-G#-F Natural-G#. It's the F Natural that you played as an f-sharp.

Shoudn't it be A-G#-F#-G# and I play it wrong: A-G#-G-G# ?

pianolady wrote:
Allegro part at bar 100 and 105. Can't hear the LH when it crossed over RH.

I can hear them but you are right: They are much to quiet.

pianolady wrote:
II: Bar 89 - you are one beat shy. You started the RH 32nd note run too soon.

OK, I just marked it red in my score.

pianolady wrote:
2nd bar from end - the RH is not all 8th notes, but 16th and 8th notes.

Oh yes - that's bad.

pianolady wrote:
III: I didn't hear 3 beats in bars 99-103 and also 106-109

You're right. When mastering the track I asked myself why I played these bars so strange.

Your comments were really helpful! Thanks again!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:22 pm 
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harald wrote:
pianolady wrote:
I: Bar 5 - the turn - should be A-G#-F Natural-G#. It's the F Natural that you played as an f-sharp.

Shoudn't it be A-G#-F#-G# and I play it wrong: A-G#-G-G# ?


Oh, Harald - I don't know what I was saying here. :oops: Maybe it was too early in the day or something. :lol:

Yes- I meant that it should be A-G#-F#-G#.

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my videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/monicapiano
my personal website: http://www.monicaalianello.com


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:29 pm 
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pianolady wrote:
harald wrote:
pianolady wrote:
I: Bar 5 - the turn - should be A-G#-F Natural-G#. It's the F Natural that you played as an f-sharp.

Shoudn't it be A-G#-F#-G# and I play it wrong: A-G#-G-G# ?


Oh, Harald - I don't know what I was saying here. :oops: Maybe it was too early in the day or something. :lol:

Yes- I meant that it should be A-G#-F#-G#.

No problem! You found the mistake and that is what counts!


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 8:48 pm 
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I listened with interest. In summary a nice record, I would like to give you some comments from my experience with this sonata:
To 1st mv.: I`m missing quite often dynamical contrasts. The triplets bar 21 are very accurately played (a bit more accurately as I did in my record, I suppose), but they sound a bit too boring for me, I´m missing here the Beethovenian spirit (fire, dynamics) and the sforzati. In the second theme you do too much rubato. I think, this is really over the limit of possibilities IMHO. In bar 64-68 you become very fast and in the part bar 76 ff. you become partly very slow. So the rubati (tempo-differences) are too much. I agree to the comment of Monica to the three movements.
In the part from bar 122-132 the sforzati are audible. In bar 157 the last eigth is rhythmically wrong. The part from 159-170 is rhythmically not clear enough for my taste. In the reprise of the second theme there is same problem like in the exposition.

To 2nd mv.: Bar 77-78 have rhythmical flaws, you changed at some places the sixteenth and the thirtysecond-notes, in bar 89 there is missing a whole quarter-note (the third beat) and you play the run a quarter too early. In bar 102 you play the sixteenth in the RH like eigth.
The quite fast tempo is possible and mostly you hold it very well, but for me it´s a little bit too fast, so that some expression is lost.

To 3rd mv.: in bar 4-6 the second a in the bass is sometimes not audible. For my taste the rubati in the whole movement are sometimes too big, that means too much tempo-uneveness. (I can´t imagine Beethoven has intended this, but, what a pity, I do not know him personally. :wink: ) Bar 99-101 is really too uneve, that means rhythmically wrong.
Though the tempo-changes are over the limit here IMO this movement has really much expression and is played with much feeling.

So, in summary it is an interesting and unusual recording for me and an achievement, though I do not agree to all points of interpretation. I hope you feel my critical remarks to be helpful, they reflect just my opinion. Thank you for sharing.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:24 am 
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Very competent and well-prepared recordings, in great sound. There are many beautiful things, and some less beautiful things. I agree on the rubato being too much. A flexible tempo is ok, sudden rushes are not. But apart from the minor flaws, and the matter of psersonal teast and interpretation, I think these cam hold their own with the other on the site.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:31 pm 
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Hello musicusblau!

I want to thank you for taking so much time to listen and to analyse my recording! Your detailed comments are indeed helpful. I went through the score again in order to retrace your points. I can understand the critics about my excessive use of rubato. I think that my associations to a storm were too strong.

Rhythmical flaws and too flat dynamics show that there is much space for improvements.
It seems to be an unusual recording because I did not listen too much to other recordings of this piece before. Perhaps my mind was too free... Also the flaws don't get out then, because I play them again and again. One handicap when practicing without a teacher. Listening to another recording after some weeks of practice could help.

Your interest is comprehensible because you shared your nice recording some time ago.
This is the ideal combination: to read your critics and to listen to your recording which makes your opinion audible. (I hope this sentence isn't too overblown...)

Thanks again,

Harald


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:35 pm 
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techneut wrote:
Very competent and well-prepared recordings, in great sound. There are many beautiful things, and some less beautiful things. I agree on the rubato being too much. A flexible tempo is ok, sudden rushes are not.

Thank you, Chris! The sudden rushes of the storm (in german it is called the storm sonata) blow my metronome away :wink:


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 3:30 pm 
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Harald wrote:
Quote:
I want to thank you for taking so much time to listen and to analyse my recording! Your detailed comments are indeed helpful.


I´m very happy about this. :D This is a main sense of this site for me. I´m also very glad, if someone points out the blemishs of my recordings. (I have to underline, the critical remarks should always be as factual as possible and we all should try not to insult the others. So, it´s always necessary IMO also to find some positive words besides the critical remarks, and I think, a recording with only negative aspects is very seldom.) Your recording has really a very positive side: you play expressively and musically (especially the third movement is really of an artistic range, because of your individual interpretation of the "storm"-character, you should not give up this idea, which is absolute the right base IMO, my personal tip is: just play not a too wild storm, may be a bit more "civilized storm" (only concerning the tempo, not the dynamics). :wink:
I have to admit, I made nearly the same rhythmical flaws in the second movement, when I posted my first version of the second mv. here. And it was mainly Pianolady, who gave me really valuable corrections and inspirations. F.ex. she inspirated me to play the staccato-notes in the third mv., and I made a new interpretation with a consequent playing of the staccato-notes. In my old version I played them in the pedal like you. I still like my new interpretation, because I feel it to be more adequate to what Beethoven wrote in his score. But, of course, THIS is absolutely a matter of personal taste, it´s also possible to play them with pedal and to consider the staccato-points as "hand-notes".

Quote:
This is the ideal combination: to read your critics and to listen to your recording which makes your opinion audible.


Thanks for this, Harald. :D Of course, I try to realize my imaginations on the pieces and they become more or less well reality in my recordings. May be there sometimes is a difference between my theory and the reality of my recordings.:wink:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:17 pm 
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musicusblau wrote:
I have to underline, the critical remarks should always be as factual as possible and we all should try not to insult the others.

Exactly! But everyone who posts recordings on this site should also tolerate negative critics. Perhaps one reason why a simple "applause button" was rejected in an older discussion.

musicusblau wrote:
So, it´s always necessary IMO also to find some positive words besides the critical remarks

That is a nice character!

musicusblau wrote:
and I think, a recording with only negative aspects is very seldom.

Indeed. At least it can be used as a bad example :wink:

musicusblau wrote:
just play not a too wild storm, may be a bit more "civilized storm"

I practiced the 3rd movement in the time of the storm "Kyrill". Perhaps that was the reason...

musicusblau wrote:
And it was mainly Pianolady, who gave me really valuable corrections and inspirations.

Yes - and she does this with great endurance and diligence!

Thanks again for your reply!

Harald


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:59 pm 
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Location: Obamanation, unfortunately...
harald wrote:
juufa72 wrote:
I didn't hear anything wrong with these recordings. Nice job. I hope others will agree with me.

Thank you, juufa! But as we see, Monica did hear some wrong notes...!



That's because I absolutely, positively do not have perfect pitch. I couldn't hum a middle C-natural if the existence of the world depended on it.

To me, all these recordings sound good. because until I am at the level in which I can play compositions like these, I should not judge what I cannot play. Don't want to be a hypocrite. :lol:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:58 pm 
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Harald wrote:
Quote:
I practiced the 3rd movement in the time of the storm "Kyrill". Perhaps that was the reason...


Ah, that´s it, that must be the explanation. :lol: :wink:

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