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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:58 am 
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No, I don't know (have only some CDs for organ music with historical temperaments).

Some digital pianos (like my Kawai MP9500) can change their temperament, so I played for fun some WTC items with historical temperaments, the difference is not that stronge (to my taste), but audible.

People argue for almost 300 years what Bach meant with "Well" temperated clavier. What is well? Must not be necessarily "equal", that's the problem. There would be no discussion about that if he choosed a more exact term :cry:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:03 am 
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People argue for almost 300 years what Bach meant with "Well" temperated clavier. What is well? Must not be necessarily "equal", that's the problem. There would be no discussion about that if he choosed a more exact term. :cry:

The Wikipedia article on the Well Tempered Clavier goes into that debate a good bit. It seems obvious that he did not intend strict Pythagorean tuning or meantone temperament, though.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:06 am 
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People argue for almost 300 years what Bach meant with "Well" temperated clavier.

I have wondered about that, myself. But I must have the word 'temperated' wrong, because i thought it was 'tempered', so in that case, and in my simple mind, I just thought of it as meaning the klavier is 'nice'. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:22 am 
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I have wondered about that, myself. But I must have the word 'temperated' wrong, because i thought it was 'tempered', so in that case, and in my simple mind, I just thought of it as meaning the klavier is 'nice'. :lol:

In English, it is "tempered" (I think Olaf made that word up!) but it doesn't mean that the clavier is "nice". :lol: I have seen spoofs called "The Bad Tempered Clavier" and such. :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:19 pm 
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Hmm, the origin is German, Bach called it "Das Wohltemperierte Klavier". "Temperierung" is now in Germany more or less only in use as something related to the temperature, how warm or how cold it is. You are right, it is translated to "tempered" and not "temperated" in that context.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:25 am 
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I think this is neat – here is a link to a website where you can hear different tunings.
http://www.wmich.edu/mus-theo/groven/compare.html

The different sounds are fascinating. And at the bottom of that page there is a link to a whole big explanation on tunings. (some of it is even starting to sink in, now :) - but only a little :? )

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:49 am 
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Yep, doesn't sound a pure major chord so much stronger than an equal tempered major chord, especially because the thirds are so ugly tempered instead beeing pure (the quint is almost pure, but not 100% pure)?

The old baroque masters knew exactly which intervalls sounded very good and which very bad and avoided the latter on their church organ. So quit a few organs in Germany are put back to original tuning in order to bring the beauty e.g. Buxtehude organ works show in certain keys!

I am also a bit wondering why violinists tune their fiddle to pure quints normally. So they pile 4 pure quints one upon the other. That means the difference between the equal tempered quints on piano is multiplied by 4 at the end. But since quints are very sligthly tempered, even that is of only small importance (maybe also because the empty strings are more seldom used on the fiddle?).
I know as I tuned my guitar in the beginning without electronic tuner I was always wondering why it did not work although I tuned all quarts to pure intervals... Until I realized there must be slightly wobbling between the quarts, because a guitar must also be tuned equal tempered.
Ok, that is very much OT, unfortunately.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 3:13 pm 
I believe it was in the book called 'What to listen for in Mozart' by Robert Harris that I read that perhaps the average listener from the day before equal temperament would more easily 'get' the harmonic changes in say a Mozart sonata. The different keys would have more distinct sounds than they do now, so if the theme re-enters in the 'wrong' key then this would be more intuitively obvious. The listener doesn't necessarily need training to identify this they would just hear that something is different and unsettled. Of course, the good composers of the day would know all about this and perhaps write to make best use of these differences.

I've read the claim that the WTC is best heard in one of the historical 'well' but not 'equal' temperaments. Having never heard anything but either equal (or out of tune equal ;) temperament I have no idea how valid this claim is.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:42 pm 
techneut wrote:
My favourite key is the lowest one on my grand. It sounds sooo good. Don't get to hit it very often, but when it happens (like in the closing of Debussy's l'Isle Joyeuse) I make the most of it. Having said that, the B flat next to is is very nice too :lol:


:) :) :)

But for some people, the lowest note is an F, or even a C...

:) :) :)


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:01 am 
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Well... I must say that I really don't like major keys. For some reason, they just don't appeal to me.

However, I LOOOOVE minor keys!

My favorite keys are C#, D#, and G# minor. I don't know why, but I just like them.

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 Post subject: Re: Do you have a favorite key?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:01 pm 
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Doesn't anyone like b major? At least for the fun of practicing scales?

pianolady wrote:
Just taking a break from practicing and got to thinking about this. My first answer to this question was going to be the key of E-flat major. The piece I was just playing ends in a low E-flat major chord, and I just love the way that sounds. Goes right into my soul. Then I did a brief flip through books sitting on my piano and discovered that many of my favorite pieces are in D-flat major. So now I am changing my mind. I like D-flat best. But then almost as many pieces I like are in A-flat major, which to me is an easy key to remember – you know, just spell the word, b-e-a-d /flats. I guess the question is not as easy to answer as I thought it would be. I will stick to E-flat and D-flat major because of the way they sound in lower register harmonies. Anybody else have a favorite key?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 7:54 pm 
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B major is my hands' favorite. My ear has a different opinion! :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:10 pm 
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demonic_advent wrote:
Well... I must say that I really don't like major keys. For some reason, they just don't appeal to me.

However, I LOOOOVE minor keys!

My favorite keys are C#, D#, and G# minor. I don't know why, but I just like them.

I love minor keys, too. When I'm listening to Chopin preludes, I have a tendency to skip the odd numbered tracks. :D I like major key stuff too...just not nearly as much...

But...D# minor? Um...

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