Piano Society
Free Classical Keyboard Recordings
It is currently Sun Oct 26, 2014 12:42 am

All times are UTC - 1 hour




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 4:37 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9576
Location: Netherlands
johnlewisgrant wrote:
I have to admit that I haven't, myself, tired of the subject of "editing" or "technical tricks," I suppose, at least not yet. And I find it very useful and interesting to know where the pulse is on this subject. I guess you've written or thought about it a lot. I haven't lately. The last time I remember posting on this subject was years ago. Maybe I've missed something in the mean time?

Not really. We've had similar discussions since, when people submitted synthetic recordings, and sometimes these get a bit sour because we claim to have rules and yet can not lay them down satisfactorily. There is no line where art crosses into technology. In the end the people in case get bored with the argument too and go elsewhere... and then we've stood our ground.

I feel that if the end justifies the means, as you more or less said, the future is bleak for honest amateur piano playing. It will be like photography and film, you can never be quite sure what you are looking at, people or computer rendering. Sometimes it doesn't matter, sometimes it does.

Maybe we should have a separate "Technology" forum for people interested in this topic. Not conventional audio technology (microphones etc) but the real stuff, sampling, rendering, whatever the PC can do these days.

Anyway, I'll shut up about it now and go play some piano :wink:

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IS this cheating or not cheating???
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 4:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:22 pm
Posts: 61
Location: currently California, USA
johnmar78 wrote:
...I just got a new computer and comes with all BS wave pad and other music editing programs. So I play around with it. I noticed in "wave Pad" you can alter the pitch . speed, reverb, hiss noise...all that high tec stuff. ... I personally think that editing sound recording has an art in itself but DO YOU think that's cheating??? eg like generic engineering.....I would like to hear the general opnion????...


Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

Since you asked :twisted: ...

Is it cheating? Of course! Any editing, alteration of the sound, tempo, etc is cheating . . . especially yourself. I know this probably sounds like something you were told about cheating in math class, but it's true. If you're a practicing musician you really should master your techniques the good old-fashioned way. Once you start on that road, where does it stop? First you speed it up a little, then edit a few parts together, then why not just program the sounds in, then just scan the music into a note-recognition software program and push play. Boy, wouldn't you look stooooopid after people that liked your music actually sat you in front of a piano and said play something for me, and you never realized just how awful the technique would become after a while, it only started with just a little editing ...

Enough moralizing. Do what thou wilt.

Love is the law, love under will.
Aryobrand


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IS this cheating or not cheating???
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:55 am 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9576
Location: Netherlands
aryobrand wrote:
Is it cheating? Of course! Any editing, alteration of the sound, tempo, etc is cheating . . . especially yourself. I know this probably sounds like something you were told about cheating in math class, but it's true. If you're a practicing musician you really should master your techniques the good old-fashioned way. Once you start on that road, where does it stop? First you speed it up a little, then edit a few parts together, then why not just program the sounds in, then just scan the music into a note-recognition software program and push play.

Mega bump :wink:

I think we all agree doing stuff like this is big-time cheating, and we would not tolerate it here (though it could be impossible to detect).

However, cutting out a couple of flubs, restarts, or page turns from an otherwise satisfactory recording, or adding reverb or equalizing, are perfectly acceptable IMNSVPHO. I believe many people do this here, and we know it's done in many professional recordings too.

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IS this cheating or not cheating???
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:18 am
Posts: 97
Location: Toronto
techneut wrote:
aryobrand wrote:
Is it cheating? Of course! Any editing, alteration of the sound, tempo, etc is cheating . . . especially yourself. I know this probably sounds like something you were told about cheating in math class, but it's true. If you're a practicing musician you really should master your techniques the good old-fashioned way. Once you start on that road, where does it stop? First you speed it up a little, then edit a few parts together, then why not just program the sounds in, then just scan the music into a note-recognition software program and push play.

Mega bump :wink:

I think we all agree doing stuff like this is big-time cheating, and we would not tolerate it here (though it could be impossible to detect).

However, cutting out a couple of flubs, restarts, or page turns from an otherwise satisfactory recording, or adding reverb or equalizing, are perfectly acceptable IMNSVPHO. I believe many people do this here, and we know it's done in many professional recordings too.


"Honesty," in the applicable sense, however, means complying with the rules of the Society. For example, if you edit "heavily," as I have done on much of my WTC, then your bio should indicate that. Mine does; but many others don't. And it's very hard, indeed, impossible to PROVE what's going on.

That doesn't trouble me too much, however. Bad music is BAD no matter how it comes into being. Good music is GOOD, again, no matter how it comes into existence. Much of what appears at the Society is good, honest piano playing, with much to recommend it regardless of technical deficiencies. That sort of music is more important than concert-perfect or recording-perfect music (two entirely different species), because all great interpretation and composition rests on the efforts of thousands of journeyman and women pianists who, regardless of talent (an entirely subjective concept), practise, practise, and practise.

JG


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IS this cheating or not cheating???
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 7:05 pm 
Offline
Site Admin

Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 11:45 am
Posts: 9576
Location: Netherlands
johnlewisgrant wrote:
"Honesty," in the applicable sense, however, means complying with the rules of the Society.

Ah but there's the crux ! Such rules as we have are woefully arbitrary and inconclusive, and I have no hope in hell that we can lay down a good set of rules that people won't argue about. In the end it will always come down to personal judgement of the admins (hopefully, with the support of bona fide forum members).

_________________
Nothing is always absolutely so -- Sturgeon's law
Chris Breemer


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: IS this cheating or not cheating???
PostPosted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 11:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 10:18 am
Posts: 97
Location: Toronto
techneut wrote:
johnlewisgrant wrote:
"Honesty," in the applicable sense, however, means complying with the rules of the Society.

Ah but there's the crux ! Such rules as we have are woefully arbitrary and inconclusive, and I have no hope in hell that we can lay down a good set of rules that people won't argue about. In the end it will always come down to personal judgement of the admins (hopefully, with the support of bona fide forum members).


Agreed!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 1 hour


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group